Quick Question….
Uncle Andrew
This thought has been bouncing around in my head for the last week or so, and I’ve just got to ask:
Should it bother anyone amongst the many supporters of Israel both in- and outside that country that a serious core of their support in America comes from the conservative movement? That many of these people—including, purportedly, our President—are evangelical Christians? That they are, in all likelihood, dedicated to the survival of the nation of Israel for the sole purpose of seeing it destroyed as part of the prophecy of the Apocalypse?
Does it really make sense to count these people among Israel’s allies? Is “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” enough justification?
Just pondering is all.
14 Responses to “Quick Question….”
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July 25th, 2006 at 6:59 am
The saying goes: Don’t F#@% With Israel. If you were going to take sides in that part of the world, Israel would be the sane bet. From a religious perspective the only times Isreal gets their but kicked is when they aren’t doing what their God told them to. The thoery is that Israel won’t be on their spritual best behavior at the time of the Apocalypse, which is why they take a beating. They win in the end though. So again, if you’re going to pick a side, go with Isreal.
As far as the Christians waiting for Israel’s destruction, well, we just know how the story ends, we didn’t write it. It’s not the christians that Isreal will be fighting at the apocalypse. The chosen people of my God are my allies.
July 25th, 2006 at 7:43 am
That’s all well and good, and I’m sure not questioning your motives in supporting Israel, but my fellow Jews don’t believe in the same End Times scenario that the Christians do. It seems a little nutty for them to accept such largesse from what amounts, from their perspective, to the advocates of their destruction.
July 25th, 2006 at 7:46 am
No more than it apparently bothers those same evangelical Christians that the Israelis are bombing a country whose president is Christian by law and constitution…or those conservative movement “pro-democracy in the Middle East” nation-builders that one of the few functional multi-ethnic and multi-religious countries in the Middle East is having its infrastructure destroyed, substantially increasing the likelihood that terrorist groups like Hizbollah will take over even more territory and supporters (because the government can’t provide the services the people need, and the people are pissed off that their homes and cities and families have been destroyed). Peace and prosperity for the Lebanese people is probably the best possible weapon against Hizbollah and their ilk, whose lifeblood is poverty and desperation.
Meh.
So yes, if I were an Israeli, I would be concerned that a significant chunk of my support base in America were a bunch of inconsistent whackjobs. As an American, of course, I’m even more concerned that those whackjobs are currently running our country. When you’ve got prominent figures in the ruling party actively rooting for the Second Coming and the End Times, it kind of puts a damper on your confidence in their “good faith” efforts to contain crises like these. I know I’d prefer a different group in power – one that was genuinely and ideologically committed to sound economic, domestic, and international policies.
Sigh…
July 25th, 2006 at 8:14 am
I’m not sure the term “inconsistent whackjobs” is perfectly appropriate here; if a person really, truly believes that the Apocalypse will not happen without the existence and inevitable destruction of Israel, that’s pretty consistent. “Whackjob” might enter into it if this same person believes that they can personally interpret, much less further or hinder, the intent of the Almighty. 😉
I simply don’t know where to point the finger when it comes to violence in the Middle East, including the current situation. I think that it’s entirely possible that the government of Israel has been rendered dangerously paranoid by the constant reality of living day-to-day in the shadow of groups who want to see you dead. Anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli violence is certainly neither contrivance nor hallucination. I can’t even imagine what the response of the American people would be to the level of daily political violence to which Israel is subjected.
You bring up a point that I have also mulled over at times, and that I try to avoid pondering if I want to get to sleep at night: how many people with significant influence in US foreign policy think that it is their job to help bring about the circumstances that will be necessary for Armageddon to occur? How many of them are sufficiently fervent or pompous or crazy to think that they have been charged with carrying out the will of God in bringing about the destruction of the world? It’s not that insane a notion; James Watt was trying to maximize America’s consumption of it’s natural resources in the 80’s specifically because he felt that the world wouldn’t be around long enough for the loss to matter. I can’t think of a better venue for reexamining the policy of separation of Church and State. 😯
July 25th, 2006 at 8:52 am
I heard this last week on All Things Considered during my evening commute. They bring up many of your points:
Pro-Israel Christians Lobby In Washington
July 25th, 2006 at 9:24 am
Hey, nice timing, Val! That hit the nail right on the head. That pastor seems so truly dedicated in his support and admiration for the Jews, to which as a Jew I would say, Mazel Tov and thank you, we should perhaps get together for a game of pinochle sometime. But as an at least peripherally-affiliated Christ Killer myself, let me just say that it all seems a bit sketchy. Gotta know someone a lot better before I’m going to buy the complete package off them. “Trust But Verify”, as the man said. 😀
July 25th, 2006 at 9:55 am
Sorry, I should have been more specific about defining who I meant by “inconsistent whackjobs” – which is to say GWB and his administration. GWB and his cohorts are on the record mulitple times as being “pro-democracy in the Middle East” (that’s ostensibly what we’re in Iraq for, don’cha know, not for oil or profit or some payback for Iraq I and GHWB, nosirreebob!) and pro-Christian government (faith-based schools, service organization, God in the Pledge of Allegiance and in the courtrooms, and a long so-on) – and yet somehow not supporting the Lebanese government, which is both a democracy and has a constitutionally-mandated Christian president and equal sharing of parlimentary seats between Christians and Muslims. Nor are they supporting the Lebanese people (mix of Christians and Muslims) or the Israeli civilians caught up in the bombfest even so far as to suggest that a cease-fire sometime soon might be worth considering…so much for “compassionate conservatism”.
That’s what I was trying to get at when I called them inconsistent. Perhaps I should have just gone straight for calling them hypocrites.
As for your dilemna regarding knowing who to point the finger for the ongoing violence, I completely sympathize. Obviously there’s no way Israel can feel anything other than threatened when they’ve got terrorists shooting rockets at their cities and civilians from just across the border and suicidal mass murderers blowing themselves up with bombs in crowded cafes. Similarly, I can’t see how any Lebanese civilian (Christian or Muslim) can react with anything other than scorn and disbelief when Israel’s government claims not to be making war on the Lebanese people, but only the terrorists who kidnapped those soldiers. (Sorry, but when you bomb the civilian airport, you’re not bombing the terrorists; you’re destroying the easiest escape route for said civilians to get out of Dodge and/or for humanitarian aid to be flown in to help said civilians.) Nor can I fail to understand why someone who grew up in refugee camps, and whose parents and grandparents also grew up in these camps, might not want to accept their lot as permanently displaced, dispossessed, and oppressed. There’s more than enough blame and violence to go around. To paraphrase Shakespeare, there’s a plague on all their houses – and short of a Palestinean Gandhi or an Israeli Martin Luther King emerging simultaneously out of the ether, I can’t see the area finding any way out of the rut of violence and retribution and generational-genocidal thinking.
Double sigh…this all just makes me so mad and sad and depressed.
July 25th, 2006 at 10:11 am
Don’t worry; my next topic will be a lot lighter. 😉
July 25th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
War is the normal state of things. Peace is simply the name we created for the lapses between wars. Folks who think lasting peace in the Middle East is possible are ignoring an awful lot of history. That doesn’t mean war isn’t ugly and pointless, but it is unavoidable.
But as for those wacky christians waiting for the distruction of Israel, don’t think of it as anti-Israel. It’s just one of the things they are expecting before the happy ending they were promised. Sort of like the sign on the interstate anouncing the exit to Disneyland. “Oh look, there’s the exit, we’re almost there.” It’s not like Israel has never been destroyed before, (again, not a good thing, but it happens so don’t act so surprised when it does).
I agree there are some influential ‘christian’ nut-cases out there that would like to hurry things along. I would wager though that much more power and money is controlled in America by a much more Jewish group of people. Sorry if that sounds stereotypical, but I’d love to see the numbers on that one. This may be one of the reasons we consistantly back Israel?
July 25th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
I’ll side with you on that when it comes to our support for Israel maybe, but beyond that I’m not biting. And I’m sure not going to Google “Jews, money, power, America” and pore through the results. Left my hip waders at the office. 😛
Even if I discount the efforts of a certain (small) percentage of the Christian population that thinks they can either influence the path of Biblical history or—even wierder—curry favor with God by furthering what they feel are His ultimate aims, I’m still left with a basic conflict: we don’t agree on a very basic, very important, very tumultuous point in future history, and one side or the other is in for a (ahem) hell of a surprise. I can’t imagine that living one’s life keeping an eye out for the Antichrist to come to ascendancy doesn’t influence one’s behavior, just as not waiting for the world must also influence one’s behavior. It’s just that I understand the latter, because I don’t believe in Biblical prophecy. Sometimes I think the pressure of that knowledge alone must be sufficient to drive an appreciable portion of believers a little spinky, knowhutimsaying? Humankind’s gray matter is too prone to overcooking as it is; we don’t need any help.
Not that I’m arguing any particular spinkitude on the part of your brain, of course. 😉
July 25th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
I’ve always found it ironic that the geographical area purported by archeologists, sociologists, and historians to the be “cradle of modern civilization” is also the most violent and war torn geographical area of the world.
On second thought, after taking human nature into consideration maybe “irony” is the wrong word. Perhaps the word I’m reaching for here is “inevitable.”
July 26th, 2006 at 6:42 am
“I’m still left with a basic conflict: we don’t agree on a very basic, very important, very tumultuous point in future history, and one side or the other is in for a (ahem) hell of a surprise.”
That’s ok, we don’t agree on very basic, very important point in past history either. Not only do the chirstians think the Messiah came and went, but those darned mormons think that Elijah already popped by for a visit. And really, we are being unfair to the Muslim world as even they trace things back to Abraham. How does their version of the end of the world go? One God, one Abraham, one heck of a lot of confusion. It’s enough to make a guy athiest… too late : D
July 26th, 2006 at 7:16 am
Or worse, Unitarian. 😛
July 26th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
I heard this quote from Jon Stewart this morning:
“If I could meet any person from history, I would pick Jesus, Mohammad, and Moses and have them on my show. We’d do this big cage match ‘Four men enter–One man leaves’ kind of thing. And if I won, then we’d be forced to conclude the Holy Land is actually New Jersey.”